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In our final main discussion about the sandbox update preview, we’re talking about auto rifles in both their current state, compared to the changes coming in Destiny 2 Beyond Light, and how they compare to Hand Cannons in Destiny 2 Beyond Light, as many anticipate Auto Rifles to still be incredibly strong in the Destiny 2 Beyond Light Crucible/PvP Sandbox.
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Funny enough, there isn't a massive change in the Time to Kill difference from the current sandbox to Beyond Light – however the range buff to Hand Cannons will make them compete much better, and keep Autos at bay better than they currently do. The primary sandbox is looking to have great potential and diversity! Keep in mind my numbers are projections, and we'll have to truly wait and see to test.
Pulse rifles and subs have no real place in the meta because auto rifles have too much range. Though Bungie is giving scouts better “cones” it’s still not going to be enough to combat teams that use team shots with autos.
Anyone gona talk about how pulses are going to have multiple archetypes with .8s or less ttk?
140s need to 2h1b
Thank you for the thorough mathematic breakdown of the changes and how they'll impact the sandbox. By prefacing your opinion with factual information, it does a great job of providing everybody with the same baseline for a good discussion. In my opinion, I think that it definitely is time that hand cannons have a break from the spotlight for most players. It may be the most popular weapon type, but most doesn't mean everyone is guaranteed to like them. These changes seem to be opening the door to options, which is only a good thing for a game like Destiny.
I thought they’re getting a nerf tf??
Rise of Vigilance Wing…..again lol.
I still think they should have left 150s alone, or maybe nerfed their range further, then buffed 140s range and made them a 2 crit 1 body. Esp on console it's extremely hard to hit consistant 3 crits while being flinched. I have no problem doing it when I'm not being shot, or when it's from something that doesn't flinch as hard but when the flinch goes up that last shot is extremly hard to hit with flinch combined with bloom when firing at max rpm(which is necessary against autos even with great strafing). Peek shooting alleviates this some but again that's harder on console. Making 140s 2 crit 1 body would really help this and I wish Bungie would think of console more instead of balancing everything with PC precision in mind. Even buffinf just that on console only would work since it's not an entirely different sandbox and wouldn't be that much work, just 1 archetype to test. But maybe with next gen's 60fps and fov slider it'll help with this problem some but we'll see.
It will be fun to see what meta will shape beyond light.
High impact pulses already feel great to use, especially cold denial and vigilance wing 😅 BL might see a pulse meta IF 600 autos and HCs aren't as good as they are now. From what I'm seeing from the twab tho they might still be really really good
Bungie really just needs to understand THE EASIEST TO USE GUNS SHOULD NOT HAVE THE HIGHEST TIME TO KILL.
stop nerfing pve 🙂
My god roll Antiope never looked so good….
My hunter build smiling with sweetbusiness we rans.
it's all coming together
I think AR should of had the recoil increased, they can have the same TTK if you can manage the recoil or bump TTK to 0.8
Pretty much what is going to happen is that auto's will be decent, hand cannons will be better if you don't miss. Which is pretty much everyone I seem to face. Anyway hand cannons getting a range buff once again lets them encroach on other weapons and they'll be considered "da bes" by youtubers and streamers and will be majority of what you see thanks to that. Especially sunshot since it will be the only 150. If these changes strengthen specials that's horrible. They're bad enough as is. So most of the sweats will get their fantasy of nothing but HC, shotgun/sniper "balance." So hype….
Autos honestly belong in the ground. It's infuriating to have to manage recoil, bloom, and peek shoot just to barely compete with smooth brain suros regenning off blueberries and infinite range summoner and gnawing. Autos need slightly more range than smgs, less than hcs, and WAY less than pulses. As it stands now autos can compete at all ranges while maintaining the fastest ttk and highest ease of use. Fuck auto rifles, I seriously hope they are never viable again. They don't belong.
Nation of beasts gang where you at
Your point about hand cannons not even being able to kill an auto-rifle user with perfect aim was so correct. It’s incredibly frustrating to lose so many gun fights even when I’m hitting my shots against a a person that is just spraying gnawing hunger at you. I recently helped a friend with the Luna’s howl kills one to NF…😐. That was so rough trying to get HC kills with nearly everyone using a 600 rpm AR.
Fr you have to be god on console too effectively use a HC , autos are by far the easiest class of
Weapon to use it’s actually insane the amount of times you’ll kill someone a good foot or even 2 behind cover . I really don’t think the meta will change at all on console good ol bungie keeping the skill ceiling nice n low with max efficiency
I think they’ll be even more ridiculous on console. Obviously hcs are more difficult to use in console so people of course leant more towards 600 rpm autos and now with the best archetype being removed I think autos are just going to reign supreme
Gonna be real interesting to see where pulse rifles land in the new meta. Not just Vigilance Wing but any 390 they introduce. Last Perdition can be a surprisingly good contender against many primaries.
Random thought: when will bungle bring back nothing manacles
I don't really use hand cannons but I would have loved to see all 140s turned into 150s, giving a multitude of hand cannons who were previously shoved off because of their rpm would be looked at as viable options.
I think those who hate the 150 rpm HC change to 140 are people who don't see the irony in their dislike of the dominance of ARs. Of course 600 ARs are currently so strong they leave little to no room for other primaries to compete. But the same has been true for 150 RPM HCs as well. Their TTK is so dominant that we naturally compare other primary's TTK to them as reference. The only thing is that people are generally more accustomed to HCs since they're kind of like the posterchild for weapons in Destiny. These people complain that ARs are stupidly easy to use for their strength, which I agree to a degree. But at the same time, these people don't see that their beloved lightweight HCs have an insane amount of handling and aim assist. Talk about being easy to use. No one wants to listen (and you shouldn't listen, including Bungie) to those toxic "pros" who complain and say that HCs should be the only competitive weapon and that they should dominate even more than they do. It's hypocritical and frankly these changes will create a much more balanced primary game. Of course there's special weapons but that's a whole other topic…
i think its stupid that people decide if something is “broken” based off how hard handcannon users have to sweat. the people who only ride on handcannons and think they are the only primary that should be used are just as bad as people who use mt Edit: 150 handcannons have been meta since forsaken. the people who think they were okay in crucible are handcannon fanatics. there can be better things without them being broken
All these changes don’t phase me because I’m a bow main lol
Autos are good for literally one season and everyone complains. Like dude hand cannons have been meta since destiny 1. It's time for change cuz I for one am sick and tired of getting killed by hc over and over and over and over again
Damn he talks so much lol
Gnawing hunger isnt powerful enough?
I'm expecting the primary meta to be much more in line in Beyond Light. Autos are somewhat in check and HCs get their range buff (I'm curious of 120s tbh cause I have a True Prophecy with Rangefinder and Explosive Rounds).
But overall I think pulse rifles are gonna re-enter the meta. High impact pulses still have a really good ttk, not to mention other pulse archetypes are gonna match up ttk wise with 140 HCs mainly (maybe even autos, I'm not as sure on that tho).
Hey, man, no need to apologize. Yeah, some of your points can be disagreed with, but they were critical and informative. And frankly, I think they were largely, if not completely correct.
Take me: I'm a mid-skill player (I'm about a .88, so mid to low), so while I do ok with a hand cannon (although I do rely on high stability), I do better with an auto. I plan to improve my hand cannon game (I mostly play Xbox rn, where I main a 140, so I'm gonna practice with a 150 with lower stability), but in Trials, I'm slapping on the Summoner. I wanna win.
Honestly I'm sick of both…
Finally my bae 'ACE' get to shine once again. With the ease of memento mori.
There not getting removed there being changed fro. 150 to 140 rpm
Math and science aside. I think the meta will remain similar but more diverse in the sense that 110 Hand cannons and 180 hand cannons will also be usable in the mix. With the slight auto rifle nerfs I can see certain pulse rifles like cold denial not being too far behind them.
Great video clear and well explained. Im subbing
I used to love handcannons; palindrome, not forgotten, ace of spades but these pee shooting revolver things (dire promise, spare rations) just annoy me. They sound so annoying and their “skill gap” is greatly overrated. Cough max aim assist, cough basically no recoil cough
Pulse rifles need a slight range buff. 450 pulses need a slight damage increase.
Well the changes made were specifically to adaptive 600rpm autos, which were dominating. So I think the 600 autos will be balanced but still a good choice of a weapon. That being said maybe other auto archetypes will get some love. Ace of spades and thorn will definitely dominate. Honestly I think the meta will be all over the place, which is really what we all want right? All weapon types being used and are balanced.
no they get nerfed, so to those people who rely on autos… get used to handcannons and have skill
I think the ikelos sub is about to be meta
I think you nailed it near the end when you mentioned that we're YEARS into hand cannons being the best option for playing. I'm going to sound whiny here: I've always stunk with hand cannons, 180s are the only ones I've ever been comfortable with, so it's nice to be able to use some other weapon types and still feel like I've got a chance. Destiny has 6 different primary weapon types, you should be able to use any of them in the right situation and have skill come out on top.
I'm just wondering about 450 auto rifles, because those aren't getting attention at all by anyone, and they have the worst AR TTK, i think they deserve something better than that
I wish they had nerfed 150s RPM's base stability and flinch resist but kept the low range. Adaptive HCs (140RPM) could have been buffed to 2crit/1body along with some bonus range and slightly less severe damage falloff, making them a true middle ground option compared to 110's and 150s. Precisions HCs could have been given the NF treatment, making them yet another unique 150 RPM archetype with low range & reload but amazing stability and consistency (console). 110s got a good buff, but they need something closer to 125RPM imo. This may have balanced out HC's based on range categories.
Precision and Adaptive autos should have been given a .8s TTK with 6crit/1body and 7crit/2body, respectively. Precisions would be highly consistent, but require better tracking; meanwhile, Adaptives would be more forgiving yet lack range and consistency. Gnawing Hunger and Summoner would need some aim assist nerfs too. They're overtuned compared to all other 600RPMs.
AR have too much accuracy at 28+ meters. It doesn't make any sense.
why is nobody talking about hawkmoon ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I dont think he understands how much recoil and bloom hand cannons have on console